( In light of recent discussion on God and Religion,a worth reading excerpt from a recent book by Ronald Dworkin, a well known philosopher, secularist and an atheist. F. Sheikh)
Before he died on February 14, Ronald Dworkin sent to The New York Review a text of his new book, Religion Without God, to be published by Harvard University Press later this year. Excerpt from First Chapter.
The familiar stark divide between people of religion and without religion is too crude. Many millions of people who count themselves atheists have convictions and experiences very like and just as profound as those that believers count as religious. They say that though they do not believe in a “personal” god, they nevertheless believe in a “force” in the universe “greater than we are.” They feel an inescapable responsibility to live their lives well, with due respect for the lives of others; they take pride in a life they think well lived and suffer sometimes inconsolable regret at a life they think, in retrospect, wasted. They find the Grand Canyon not just arresting but breathtakingly and eerily wonderful. They are not simply interested in the latest discoveries about the vast universe but enthralled by them. These are not, for them, just a matter of immediate sensuous and otherwise inexplicable response. They express a conviction that the force and wonder they sense are real, just as real as planets or pain, that moral truth and natural wonder do not simply evoke awe but call for it.
There are famous and poetic expressions of the same set of attitudes. Albert Einstein said that though an atheist he was a deeply religious man:
“To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their most primitive forms—this knowledge, this feeling, is at the center of true religiousness. In this sense, and in this sense only, I belong in the ranks of devoutly religious men.1“
Percy Bysshe Shelley declared himself an atheist who nevertheless felt that “The awful shadow of some unseen Power/Floats though unseen among us….”2 Philosophers, historians, and sociologists of religion have insisted on an account of religious experience that finds a place for religious atheism. William James said that one of the two essentials of religion is a sense of fundamentality: that there are “things in the universe,” as he put it, “that throw the last stone.”3 Theists have a god for that role, but an atheist can think that the importance of living well throws the last stone, that there is nothing more basic on which that responsibility rests or needs to rest.
Judges often have to decide what “religion” means for legal purposes. For example, the American Supreme Court had to decide whether, when Congress provided a “conscientious objection” exemption from military service for men whose religion would not allow them to serve, an atheist whose moral convictions also prohibited service qualified for the objection. It decided that he did qualify.4 The Court, called upon to interpret the Constitution’s guarantee of “free exercise of religion” in another case, declared that many religions flourish in the United States that do not recognize a god, including something the Court called “secular humanism.”5
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/apr/04/religion-without-god/
Two words…wonderful book.
An amazing summation of undefinable and indescribable thoughts surrounding the wonderment who( singular or plural) is making it all happen. It can be oversimplified and stated as curiosity of a questioning mind. A toddler wonders why a rubber ball bounces but not a cotton ball. With age and acquired knowledge he understands the reason and a tiny mystery is solved. Our planet is filled with infinite number of mysteries, leave alone the rest of the solar system or our galaxy or the infinite number of other galaxies. A minuscule number of mysteries have been solved since the dawn of consciousness. Even though the speed of discovering the causes and effects have become astronomically high, the sheer volume of the unknowns requires billions of years to uncover all. In human scale of time, an impossibility.
The problem has been caused by some individuals, over the centuries, who offered their own assumptions as the facts and added weight to it by creating God(s) and self-ordaining themselves either as God’s Ambassador on Earth or his appointed Regent. They carried the day, not without tough opposition though, in their own eras. But with passage of time and advances made in uncovering the causes and effects, lots of people know the truth, like the toddler, why the symbolic rubber ball bounces but not the cotton ball.
You always write, “TFUSA does not have any agenda”.
My response, with due respect, is that TFUSA has an agenda.
1. Prophets give you the answers. Prophets look for believers.
Philosophers assist you to think. Philosophers look for thinkers.
2. Where is God gone? I mean to tell you! We have killed Him—you and I! …God is dead! God remains dead! And we have killed Him!
3. Oh! what tangled webs we weave when first we practise to believe. (Walter Scott),
Right there, applause are heard, “wonderful book”.
These are sheer stunning statements (from the book being discussed) to entice readers, ask the writer, what do mean by that he won’t be able to explain, they are just scholastic squabbles. By the way they were quotes not his own blah…blah…blah.
It is not mentioned anywhere that man is God’s Ambassador or regent/regerant, it is a concoction, a misinterpreted numskull’s absurdity in literature by oblate mullahs. Man is a creation who has choices between any two antipodes to live and rule on earth with provisions as available on earth and in it’s atmosphere, until a defined time. Whosoever lived here on earth before him, with control or authority, is not here anymore, that is the context of Khalifa (successor not ambassador), the one who came after another predecessor. Khalaf is after in Arabic. Geographically alienated linguistic interpretations cannot be knowledge or Episteme of knowledge.
Now it is Man’s choice what his intent would be to design the structure of life. Higher level of abstract always appears to be dogmatic but a clear resolve and insight can convert many abstracts into concrete realities. You can do only what you can do.
Although Saeed Hassan has some valid concerns, but it is true that TFUSA does not have an agenda.
TF USA is not a religious organization, so we avoid posting articles which are purely religious. But we do post articles/comments which are both pro and against religious beliefs. Because we do not post purely religious articles, it may come across as having an anti-religious agenda. I agree there were some comments recently posted which some of the Editorial Board members felt were in-appropriate, not relevant to discussion and did not contribute to intellectual discussion. But in this regard we may err on the side of freedom of expression rather than censorship.
TF USA Editorial Board is not a monolithic group of individuals. It is a group of independent thinkers who ferociously disagree with each other on various points. This diversity of intellectual point of views bring vitality, exuberance and intellectual empowerment.
There is only one point on which TF USA Editorial Board members agree wholeheartedly. And that is to provide an intellectual environment where individuals can express themselves on any topic of their own choice.
All comments by different affiliates are their personal point of views. Sometime a comment may be discarded using editorial judgment because of only three reasons.
(1) Personal attack
(2) Hate statement
(3) Foul language
Editor of the Month cannot use personal criteria’s of like/dislike, agreement/disagreement with the point of view expressed by any affiliate.
I agree with Saeed Hassan’s views. I had sent my concern direct to some of the board members, which I am glad was taken seriously. I am still amazed how my blog We are Plugged in Today became the source of discussion about atheism and theism. We need to understand that the West’s agenda to tear apart the Islamic civilization until it is dead and merge it into the Western civilization, is being promoted through half a dozen of atheist propagandists. Let us not allow this forum to become a tool of such propaganda by using, salutary words, “giant intellectual”, “Bravo”, “Genius”, etc., for thoughts which need to taken and understood as intellectual interaction only.
Mirza Ashraf
I would like to comment on the TFUSA. It seems to be more like a reading club than a blog. Affiliates are reluctant to speak their mind, they like to copy and paste articles, some really great articles indeed, but not their own thinking – with the exception of Mirza Ashraf Sahib (though I sometimes find it difficult to separate his ideas from the quotes quoted but do understand that the choice of a quote represents his consent). We all stand on the shoulders of great thinkers but it would be nice to say it in our own words and not hide behind big names.
I am sure if TFUSA was only presenting the worn down and rapidly declining faith based
opinions Saeed Sahib would not have found any agenda here but just like Mirza Sahib,
any disagreement seems to him/them like the West’s agenda to “tear apart” the Islamic civilization. What I find funny is that West would use “atheists” for countering Islamic Civilization; may I ask if atheists are only rejecting Allah and do not “tear apart” the Lord God and Jahweh or any other deity? Not true, I expect Mirza Sahib to correct his statement as he knows very well what atheists think of Christianity and Judaism – the majority of the Western believers.
After a long time searching for a title to replace atheist to adopt for myself I must thank
the author of this article under discussion, and the affiliate who shared it and the court that coined it, I hereby proclaim myself “secular humanist”. People can go ahead and drag atheism down to their theism level, it doesn’t bother me any more.
I feel to be a part of this whole universe and nature and I am now looking for a word to replace the word “spirituality” (because this word is contaminated), for what I experience when alone with nature and see myself from outside of me, standing, in the sounds of wind and chirping birds surrounded by mountains and woods or sea and knowing how I am a part of a continuous transition or evolution, aware that this environment was not created for me, rather I am here because of it, and it is transitory and many species of life came before me and many more will come/evolve after me. Thanks to the ancestors and the hardships they endured and survived I am developed enough to differentiate right from wrong in a given situation and don’t need the carrot of heavens or the stick of the hell to guide me. I am brave enough to not console my mortality by any illusion of afterlife. This makes my life more precious not less. I feel no shame in considering all animals my kin and this only makes me more humble and invokes guilt for the atrocities we commit towards all other life…..I would prefer to starve to death than cut an animal (specially with a dull knife while reciting God is great).
I am reading a book these days “Wild” by Cheryl Strayed and its about her courageous hike of over one thousand miles on the Pacific Crest Trail (from Mexico to Canada) to rethink and reset her life (from lost to found, as she puts it) and she describes coming across a deer after two months of being alone (mostly) in the wilderness and saying to the staring deer, “don’t worry you’ll survive”, which sums up the life of animals and how I feel for those who share this earth with us and have survived too so far.
I invite the believers to rethink their impression of non believers, they may not actually find non believers immoral or bad people and I am sure believers themselves don’t necessarily do good things for a reward or for the fear of punishments…just try, you may not need the training wheels any more and be able to ride freely. I guaranty you will feel liberated.
Babar